Quote 2 particular lines or passages from within Chap 5-12: one that feels imp’t to the text and one that feels imp’t to you, and explain why they feel imp’t. End your post w/ a question. (Note page #s.) Skip a line between paragraphs since you cannot indent on the blog.
Also, reply to at least one student's post.
A passage in this week’s reading that I found important was the one in which Rueven reflects upon President Roosevelt’s death. After coming home from school, where he learned of Roosevelt’s passing, Rueven sits with his father listening to the radio. “ I sat there and listened and couldn’t believe it. How could President Roosevelt die? … How could a man like that die?” (187. Rueven’s disbelief is something I think a lot of people can relate to, including myself. When something so jarring, whether it be the death of someone important to you or something else, it takes a while to become real. The way Rueven reacts to Roosevelt’s death seemed real and was something I could relate to.
ReplyDeleteRueven’s father’s heart attack was an important part of this reading. Not only does it scare Reuven and disrupt he and his father’s routine, it also causes him to become even closer with Danny than he already was. When Reb Saunders hears of Reb Malter’s heart attack, he invites Rueven to stay at the Saunders’ house until his father has recovered and is out of the hospital. “Danny and I did everything together that month.” (193). Reb Malter’s heart attack causes Danny and Rueven to spend much more time together, further strengthening their friendship. It also gives Rueven a look at life in Danny’s house. Reb Saunders breaks down in tears intermittently, and seems very fragile. Danny seems defensive when Rueven asks if he is alright, causing me to wonder; is something going to happen to Reb Saunders, and if it does, what does that mean for Danny’s plan to become a psychologist?
If something happens to Reb Saunders, I think it will affect Danny’s plan to become a psychologist. However if Danny works up the courage to talk with his father about not wanting to take his place and having his brother do it, and his father is convinced, I’m sure Danny will become a psychologist with his brilliant mind. However if that conversation does not happen, I think Danny will be forced to take his father's position because he did not have that conversation so Danny is the established heir as well as Danny will feel like he will have owed it to his father because he did not confront him about it because he couldn’t bring up the courage.
DeleteIn this section of reading, we see a few major plot developments. We learn about Reuven's dad, Mr. Malter, having a heart attack. Due to the heart attack he is hospitalized, and Reb Saunders offers to let Reuven stay with them. After Reueevn talks it over with his dad, they decide that moving in with Danny's family is the best decision. “I moved into Danny’s room (192).” To me, this is a very important part of their friendship, which seems to be a huge part of the book. Throughout the book, Reuven and Danny have been getting closer and closer to each other, and as I continued reading, I saw how them living together continued that pattern. This was especially important because they were having trouble seeing each other due to school.
ReplyDeleteWhile Reuven was living with the Saunders family, he spent a lot of time discussing readings with Danny. “Danny and I talked often about his reading of Freud (194).” This quote really got me thinking about how times have changed in our society. We used to live in a world where it was very common for kids to be discussing readings they were choosing to do for pleasure outside of school. But now it’s really unusual to see kids discussing readings; it’s more likely to see them much more discussing things they are finding on their phones. I found this quote was a good example of this and led me to think about the changes that have occured in American society over time.
Over the course of the book, we learn about Reuven’s and Danny's different religious upbringings and beliefs. My question is, if Reuven and Danny had had the same religious upbringing how would that have changed their friendship?
This comment has been removed by the author.
DeleteJessica S.
DeleteThis is really interesting to think about. I think that if Danny and Reuven had grown up with the same religious upbringings, they wouldn’t have as special of a connection as they do. The fact that they come from different backgrounds allows them to kind of compliment each other and allows them to learn from each other as well. If they had come from the same background, I don’t think they would have as much of that magic because they might have almost too much in common with each other, to the point where it’s boring. I don’t think their friendship would be as open-minded or honest because they would both be trying to live up to a certain expectation they’re expected to, when they’d be around each other.
Does this connect to Romeo and Juliet at all?
DeleteIn this part of “The Chosen” There was a passage I found that was important to me. It was, “We just don’t talk Reuven. Maybe it sounds a little crazy to you. But it's true.” (161) THis part of the book really struck me because I can't imagine if I had this relationship with my parents. I don’t talk with them about every little thing I do but I do have conversations with them a lot. Not talking to my parents ever accept about one topic would be torture for me. Having the relationship that Danny has with his father would be unsustainable for me and wouldn’t make sense. This is how Reven views it as he exclaims how can Danny do that because he can’t.
ReplyDeleteAn important part of the book is when Reuven moves in with Danny. “ I packed a bag and took a cab to Reb Saunders house. I moved into Danny’s Room” (192). This is a very important part of the book because they become even closer friends which is a very important part of the book. It also shows Reuven a closer look into Danny’s relationship with his father. Which, throughout the final pages of the book, Reuven is dumbfounded by how Danny can maintain this non connection with his father.
In this part of the book, we see that Danny and Reuven become closer friends but are slightly estranged by the fact that Danny and his father have a very complex relationship and Reuven doesn’t understand how that exists. Will Danny and Reuven become more estranged over that or will they form an even more close relationship because Danny doesn’t have one with his father?
Another relationship I find interesting is the relationship between Reuven and Danny’s father. Reb starts off by quizzing Reuven on the Talmud and eventually uses Reuven to inquire into the doings of his son. It feels like Reb is using Reuven as a means to bypass his strange relationship with Danny, and neither Danny nor Reuven understand why Reb won’t simply talk to his son himself. I think that Reuven and Danny will form a close relationship with each other, but I also think that Reuven will form a close relationship with Danny’s father, and perhaps he will be able to bridge the relationship between Danny and his father by the end of the book. It will be interesting to see how this plays out.
DeleteI saw this lack of connection between Reuven and Danny whenever this topic was brought up as well. Reuven seemed to have trouble relating to Danny’s situation. “I don’t understand that at all” (168). Even though their relationships with their father’s are very different and they can’t seem to relate to one another in that manner, I don’t think it will drive them apart. I think that Reuven will come to understand that Danny and his father aren’t very close to each other. However, I don’t think he will leave it at that. Maybe he will approach Reb. I just think that because it has been a big part of the book, something will come from it. Possibly what you said, which is that Danny and Reuven will become even closer.
DeleteI think a lot of why Danny was so open with Rueven when they first met was because he has no one else he feels like he can talk to. Even before he met Rueven, he was talking with his father in the library about his readings. Without someone like his own father to talk to, like Rueven does, it seems Danny needs and values Reuven immensely. If Danny’s father was more present in his life, I think it might diminish his conversation with Rueven because he would have another outlet for his thoughts, questions and ideas. Instead of their fathers difference in parenting driving Danny and Rueven apart, I think it in fact makes them closer.
ReplyDeleteThe six million Jews that had died from World War ll was a big part of this reading. Reuven and everyone around him, especially his dad, have a strong reaction to this news. At one point during a discussion between Reb, Danny and Reuven, Reb says “‘Master of the Universe, how do you permit such a thing to happen?’” (190). They all have trouble grasping the idea of how and why this happened. This question reminded me of my own thought process when something awful occurs. I used to believe that everything happened for a reason. At least I wanted to believe this. However, I have realized that that is not always the case. Sometimes it can feel impossible to try and justify something or to find a pleasant outcome of a terrible situation. And I think some of the characters in this part of the book stuggle with their inablitly to find a reason for why the genocide happened.
ReplyDeleteNear the end of this section of the book, a terrifying event occured. Reuven’s father had a heart attack. Reb Saunders did not like that Reuven was living on his own so he invited him to stay at their house. Reuven “moved into Danny’s room” (192). This line and part of the book is very important. Prior to this event, Danny and Reuven were so busy they could almost never talk with each other. They both had things they wanted to share but just didn’t have the time.
Now that they are living together, they are able to discuss all the things that they had been doing and reading about in the last year. Which seems to have brought them even closer than before.
Even though Reuven does not think so, I wonder if their friendship was slipping away the less time they spent with each other. Do you think that their relationship would have dwindled had they not been able to reconnect during this time?
Ben Acker
DeleteGretta, I also wondered what would have happened to Reuvan and Danny's friendship if Mr. malter did not have a heart attack. There is evidence to support that the bond the two boys formed with softball and Reuvans eye is a long lasting one that couldn't be changed by some time apart. The reader could also draw the conclusion that Danny and Reuvans friendship could easily be changed. Both conclusions seem possible and I think that it comes down to who Danny and Reuvan are as characters. So far in the novel we haven't really met many other friends of Reuvan while it is mentioned that Danny goes to the movies often with his other friends. The boys have many things such as their own relationships with their fathers. I think that because of their values and things in common the boys relationship would not have changed much with time apart.
As a reader, I also wondered whether these two characters were drifting apart at times. But after thinking about it, I agree with Ben. I think that they have a lot in common and have created too strong of a bond to drift apart. Before they were living together, Reuven and Danny were not able to see each other as much as they would have liked due to their busy school schedules. There were also some periods during the summer during which Reuven and Danny didn't see each other. When Reuven went away with his dad, Mr. Malter, he and Danny chose not to write to each other. That was a decision that the two of them made together, because they thought that writing was childish. But the fact that they chose not to have that connection during that time shows me they cared a lot about their friendship and didn't want to do anything to hinder that like childish writing might have. Since the very beginning of this whole book, I have seen foreshadowing of a very strong friendship between Danny and Reuven, and I think it is too early in the book for them to grow distant.
DeleteBen Acker
ReplyDeleteAfter reading eight more chapters of The Chosen by Chaim Potok, I found two quotes that struck me. One being a passage that felt important to me and then one that felt important to the novel. A quote that struck me was when Danny's father walked into the synagogue “The silence that followed had a strange quality to it: expectation, eagerness, love, awe.” (124). Reuvans experience with the abrupt silence in the synagogue reminds me of the same type of silence I experience right before falling asleep. The same type of silence I experience after I’ve turned in a test, return to my desk, and tune into the silence in the classroom. I feel like this feeling is universal and one that we can all relate to in some way.
Another quote that I found, this one being important to the novel, was when Reuven reflects on Franklin Delano Roosevelt’s death, “I found myself crying too, an felt a gnawing emptiness, as though I had been scraped clean inside and there was nothing in me now but a terrible darkness. I was feeling as though it had been my father who had died.”(187). Reuvan was affected by FDRs death, and the holocaust. He is not the only character affected by these events. An example of this is when Mr. Malter talks to Reuvan about FDRs death and the holocaust, “‘Six million of our people have been slaughtered,’ he went on quietly. ‘It is inconceivable. It will have meaning only if we give it meaning. We cannot wait for God...There is only one Jewry left now in the world...It is here in America. We have a terrible responsibility. We must replace the treasures we have lost...A madman has destroyed our treasures. If we do not rebuild Jewry in America, we will die as a people.’”(191). The fact that almost every character in the book was affected by the news of the holocaust and Franklin Delano Roosevelt’s death shows that it is important to the novel.
The news could have even induced Mr. Malters heart attack. My question is, how will the news of the holocaust and Franklin Delano Roosevelt’s death continue to affect the characters and thus effect the novel?
The destruction of the European Jewry and the slaughter of six million Jews left a big imprint on the Jewish community where Danny and Reuven live. Reuven’s father tells him, “‘There is only one Jewry left now in the world,’ … ‘It is here, in America. We have a terrible responsibility. We must replace the treasures we have lost’ (191).” The tone of the chapter changed dramatically during the scene this quote rolled around. It went from celebrating the end of the war and the death of Hitler to shock and mourning. Danny, Reuven, and their families became a lot more serious and sullen in the way they behaved after they received this news. The book itself became darker after this point, with Reuven’s father suffering a heart attack and Reb Saunders being very on edge, even snapping at the idea of a state of Israel. This part of the book was a turning point for the characters and their personalities.
ReplyDeleteOn page 168, when referring to his father, Danny tells Reuven, “But we don’t talk anymore, except when we study Talmud.” This struck a nerve for me. It must be hard for Danny to have such an impersonal connection to his father. I can’t imagine myself not talking to my father about anything other than my studies. I don’t understand why Reb Saunders feels it necessary to not speak to his son, and neither Danny nor Reuven understand either. I wonder what happened to Reb Saunders to cause him to believe that he and Danny should not speak to each other. What could have caused this relationship between Danny and his father?
I believe that part of the reason for this disconnect between the two of them is due to the fact that Danny is elevated from his community because of his father. I think this caused him not to have many people to talk to. If his father noticed this he might be trying to not talk to him because he is trying to prepare him for a lifetime of only being able to talk to himself. He is acclimating Danny to the silence. This can be seen when Danny tells Reuven that his father once told him to look into his soul for the answer instead of asking others.
DeleteI had the same thoughts about Danny and his father. I wondered why they have the unsustainable relationship that they have. It's tough to say why, maybe it's because Danny doesn't have a lot of people to talk to. Although, if Danny's father knew about this, wouldn't he be trying to be the person he talks to? If it were me as his father, I would be there for him to talk to, because by talking to his father more it might help him to build up more confidence to talk to other people.
DeleteWhat do you think Danny's father is trying to teach him? Is there another model for how to "be there for him"?
DeleteOne particular line that really stuck out as being important to the book is “treat the son as you would the father, because one day the son will be the father.” This line puts Danny's life in contrast. Earlier Reuven’s father expanded the power that Danny’s father has over his people but i don't think that Reuven was cognizant of the fact that that meant the Danny had in a way the same power. This also helps to explain why Danny only trusts Reuven with his secretive reading for the first half of the book. He did not have any other friends that were not completely aware of his elevated position. He had lived in isolation from others due to his father. As we hear many conversations between the two friends surrounding Danny's father it is clear that Danny's father recognizes this and stays silent as a way to prepare Danny for the complete isolation he will experience later in life.
ReplyDeleteAs Danny’s and Reuven’s friendship grows we start to see Danny start to try and reed Freud’s writings. Shortly afterward we see him get very annoyed at the wright but shortly after he seems to be able to understand it. The way he learned to read it has real meaning and I think everyone can use it. It is best summed up when Danny said, “Freud must be studied not read” (page 80). This idea of there being a difference can be instituted in many things. It is the difference between knowing and understanding. This can also be seen in the studying of the Talmud in both one their lives. What does Reuven think of Danny's ability so study taxed so fast? Is he happy for him or do you think at times he is slightly jealous at times.
So far after reading through chapters 5-12, I found many quotes that I feel are very crucial to the progression of the story. One that really stood out to me, was when Reuven and his father are talking about moving in with the Saunders family after his father suffered a heart attack, “I moved into Danny’s room." (192) This is crucial to me because it builds onto Reuven and Danny's friendship, which in my opinion is one of the big parts of the story. By moving into Danny's room, their bond will grow stronger. And as I read, this really seemed to help their bond because they weren't able to see each other because of school getting in the way.
ReplyDeleteSomething that jumped out to me during my reading, was “We just don’t talk Reuven. Maybe it sounds a little crazy to you. But it's true.” (161) This really struck me because it doesn't seem to me like Danny and his parents have a very good relationship. It got me thinking about if I had a relationship with my parents where we almost barely talked. It wouldn't help me at all. Getting though life would be much harder if I didn't have a person like my mom or dad to talk to, because my family is the biggest part of my life. I just think their relationship would be hard to live with, and that it's something I hope they fix later in the novel.
A question that ran through my mind a lot as I read was, why is the relationship between Danny and his father the way it is? Have they just never gotten along, or did something cause it as Danny grew up?
Jessica S.
ReplyDeleteOne line that felt important to me is when Reuven’s father said, “Reuven, as you grow older you will discover that the most important things that will happen to you will often come as a result of silly things, as you call them-’ordinary things’ is a better expression” (110). This line kind of gave me a different mindset, and made me think about how in the future, I should pay more attention to ordinary things I do because there might be a more important underlying message or importance to what I’m doing that could influence my life greatly. I think looking at ordinary things you do in this sense could also give more meaning to your life as well.
One major event that happened is that Reuven’s father Mr. Malter, had a heart attack. Because of this, Danny’s father invites Reuven to stay with them for the time being. “From the day I entered Reb Saunders’ house to the day I left to go with my father to our cottage...I was a warmly accepted member of Danny’s family” (193). This was a really big event because it strengthed Reuven’s relationship with not only Danny but with Danny’s family as well. It causes Danny and Reuven to become even closer, and it gives Reuven an insider look at how Danny’s family functions.
While reading, I pondered a lot over the relationship between Danny and his father and the use of silence. Is it a traditional upbringing? Did a past event between the two of them trigger this?
I have lived among Hasidic families and haven't witnessed this tradition (in recent decades). It made me interested to read further. Here is one perspective from a yahoo answers forum. I will try to consult friends directly.
Deletewhy do Hasidic Jews bring their children up in silence?
Tiberia
Lv 7
1 decade ago
They don't. Here's the full scoop, written by a Hassidic Jew himself:
"Q-10: In Chaim Potok's book The Chosen, a Hasidic father raised his son in silence. Is this still practiced?
As far as I know, this was just a literary device invented by Potok for the purpose of his novel. If it was ever practiced at all (and I've never heard of it except for Potok's book), then it was not widespread. Hasidim love their children very much, and interact with them in a warm, friendly way. The idea of never talking to one's child except to study Talmud would be unthinkable!
Unfortunately, this fictional invention of Potok's is now being read worldwide in English literature classes and taken as fact by unsuspecting students. At the end of each academic quarter I receive tons of questions about the supposed Hasidic custom of "raising children in silence." Again, people -- there is no such custom! However, there once was a tendency for European fathers (not just Hasidim) to be emotionally distant from their children -- recall the stuffy (gentile) British father in "Mary Poppins" or the cold (Austrian) military Dad in "The Sound of Music." This is not a Hasidic custom per se, but it was a European custom that probably influenced some European Jews."